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The Refined Collective Podcast

Oct 7, 2020

Thank you Newsstand Studio at 1 Rockefeller Plaza for providing a place for me to record this episode for y’all! No more Brooklyn closet recording!!! 


It’s been 2 and a half years since I launched The Refined Collective Podcast (but don’t worry, we’re not going anywhere). We have over 100 episodes and even if you’ve been following for a while, chances are that you missed out on some. To give myself some space and rest this fall (OOF the 2020 struggle is real, y’all), I am relaunching an old series where I ask men all the questions you’re DYING to know, plus there’s a never before heard bonus episode straight from the mouth of single dude actively lookin’ for his wifey.


First up, Jamal Miller. This guy is a mogul—for real though. He’s an entrepreneur, pastor, husband to Natasha, father of two daughters, CEO of @millermediagroup, founder of @marriedandyoung, and online campus pastor at All Nations Chicago. Yeah, he’s pretty awesome! This episode, we chat about how he’s an advocate for sliding into DMs (just wait until you hear the way he met his wife), plus he gives you the truth about why that guy is not asking you out. We all walk around with expectations, whether it’s the way we think we’ll meet our person or what qualities we think they’ll have. This episode will help you step into reality and open you up to the possibilities ahead of you.


Expectations vs Reality

  • Is your expectation of a rom com meet-cute fairytale keeping you from trying the dating apps or sliding into DMs?
  • You’ve heard of the IG DM slide, but what about the Facebook messenger slide? Yeah, that’s where it all started for Jamal and Natasha.
  • Phone calls turned to skype dates, which then turned into meeting face to face. Losing hope for your dating life in quarantine? Fairytale endings can grow out of socially distanced beginnings.


The Dream Guy Checklist

  • “You have to first go through the process of divorcing the person in your head.”
  • We walk around with an image in our head of the exact person we think we should be with and it’s preventing us from seeing the person we’re actually meant to be with.
  • Don’t count out a guy you’ve known forever just because they aren’t new and exciting.
  • “Your feelings don’t know your future.”
  • Are men intimidated by strong women? If he is, he’s the wrong guy. “You want a man who is inspired by you.”


Friend Zone vs. Danger Zone

  • Men and women can be friends, but not best friends. That’s the danger zone where things can get complicated and messy.
  • There needs to be clear communication from the start so that nobody gets emotionally tied to the other person and ends up hurt.
  • “Friendship is a breeding ground for marriage.”
  • Relationships can grow out of friendships when there’s communication and respect.
  • “If you’re going to be a bad friend, you’re going to be a bad spouse.”


Give Him a Nudge

  • You’re not comfortable pursuing? Well guess what, some guys aren’t comfortable pursuing either. Fear of rejection is REAL, you guys. 
  • He might be timid. Be willing to create space to allow him to pursue.
  • He might be still learning how to lead. He’s allowed to be in progress.
  • He might be unsure of if you like him. Give him a little nudge. If he doesn’t respond, he might not be ready or interested.


How to Be Part of the Solution

  • Pray for mentors in the lives of men to lift them up—"Those are your future husbands.”
  • Take responsibility as a woman and fight for the men in your life. 
  • Instead of complaining and lamenting—pray for him.



  • Keep up with Jamal on Instagram at @jamalmiller and his wife, Natasha, at @natashaannmiller.
  • Listen to Natasha Miller’s episode of TRC, “How to Plan for Marriage Not Just a Wedding,” here.
  • They share their love story in a YouTube video— check it out here.


I am so grateful for my friend Stephanie May Wilson and her heart to create content to help me walk into a place of God’s presence with trust. She has a new journal called The Between Places: 100 Days to Trusting God When You Don’t Know What’s Next. It’s a prayer journal for seasons of waiting, uncertainty, transitions, and making big decisions. You can pick up your journal at and use code REFINED for 15% off!


I have been a full-time photographer for over a decade and the digital delivery of client images in 2020 has made things simple, but there is still something really special about handing your client a physical keepsake. That’s where USB Memory Direct comes in. They make USB flash drives customized with your logo, and have over 50 styles to choose from in different shapes and materials. Head over to,and be sure to use code TRC20 at checkout to take 20% off your first order of custom flash drives.


You know how they say it takes a village to raise a kid? Well, this podcast is like my baby. Did you know you could financially support their favorite podcasts for as little as $5/mo. (That’s cheaper than a cup of NYC coffee y’all!) Head over to to see how you can support the podcast (and get some pretty awesome goodies as a thank you)!