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The Refined Collective Podcast

Oct 26, 2020

Thank you Newsstand Studio at 1 Rockefeller Plaza for providing a place for me to record this episode for y’all! No more Brooklyn closet recording!!!


This week, we’re taking a break from the That’s What He Said series, because it has been on my heart to share resources and stories to support you in the upcoming election (on November 3, in case you need a reminder). I want to ask the hard questions and give you space to ask those hard questions to and wrestle and pray. So this week, I’m talking to repeat guest Ashley Abercrombie and we’re having an honest conversation about abortion, pro-life, and pro-birth. We are so grateful that you are listening to this conversation, even if it might make you uncomfortable.


Here’s what’s been going through my mind recently:

  • How does our faith impact how we vote?
  • What does it really mean to be pro-life?
  • What does it mean to be a single-issue voter?
  • And how can I have a robust + holistic view of a candidate without getting sucked into the propaganda + emotion of it all?


Why Do Women Have Abortions?

  • Poverty: women not having the capacity to care for both themselves and a child.
  • 25% of the abortions in the United States are had by married women.
  • Victims of domestic violence will turn to abortion when they fear bringing a child into an abusive home.
  • “Abortion doesn’t have a specific face.”


Why Are You Anti-Abortion?

  • Is this something you inherited from your faith community growing up?
  • Is this something your parents taught you?
  • Is it a value you hold dear because you have researched the issue and are pro-life, pro-birth, and pro-mother?


Pro-Life vs. Pro-Birth and Pro-Mother

  • Being pro-mother means advocating for women’s right to have a good birth experience. Simple things like having a decent maternity leave.
  • When we talk about pro-life, we need to be considering the full life of both the child and mother.
  • “We cannot just be pro-birth people, we have to be pro-life. It’s who God is.”


"I do not believe that just because you are opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, a child educated, a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.”

  • Sister Joan Chittister, on a Bill Moyers interview in 2004


3 Assumptions Voting Pro-Life and Republican

  1. A Republican will appoint pro-life people in the Supreme Court and thus overturn Roe v. Wade
  • For the last 49 years, Republicans have owned the majority in the Supreme Court, yet no overturn.
  • In 1992, there was an 8:1 ratio of Republicans to Democrats in the Supreme Court. When given the chance to turn down abortion, they didn’t.
  1. Overturning Roe is the key to ending abortion
  • Roe decision didn’t legalize abortion
  • In 1776, abortion was legal everywhere in the United states
  • In the 1930s, doctors reported 800k legal abortions— similar to numbers to that of today
  1. Policies of Republicans decrease abortions and Democrats increase abortions
  • Republicans // Pro-Life
    • Overturn Roe v. Wade
    • No taxpayer funding
    • Defund Planned Parenthood
    • Baby’s right to life
  • Democrats // Pro-Choice
    • Support Roe v. Wade
    • Taxpayer funding for abortions
    • Expand Planned Parenthood
    • Mother’s right to privacy


Why Have Abortions Been Declining Since the 1980s?

  1. Fewer women are facing unplanned pregnancies
  2. Reduced teen sexual activity
  3. More access to healthcare and contraceptives
  4. New state restrictions (i.e. late-term abortions)
  5. More affordable adoptions


None of these things happen because of Roe v. Wade, a presidential candidate, or a Supreme Court justice.


“We don’t have to agree on everything to be connected to one another.”




Avail exists to empower New Yorkers facing an unexpected pregnancy or past abortion with critical support and resources to inform their decisions, build healthy relationships, and promote healing. They promise a safe place for confident decisions with no pressure or politics. You can make an appointment to meet your personal advocate at (59:38)


You know how they say it takes a village to raise a kid? Well, this podcast is like my baby. Did you know you could financially support their favorite podcasts for as little as $5/mo. (That’s cheaper than a cup of NYC coffee y’all!) Head over to to see how you can support the podcast (and get some pretty awesome goodies as a thank you)! (28:25)